Timo Ellis Lauds Gojira’s Joe Duplantier as ‘Genius,’ Discloses Autism Diagnosis
What do Gojira, Yoko Ono and Money Mark have in common? A man named Timo Ellis, with whom they and a litany of other music legends have collaborated over the years. As prolific as Stephen King, Ellis is a pro at dozens of instruments and boasts tenure with a vast array of bands, including his own projects Netherlands and OOMASOOMA. On October 10, he will roll out El Bronco Blanco, the third collection of material by the latter affair. It succeeds Endless Future and Delireal, an EP that was released in August.
The self-described “genre-fluid” Ellis recently granted The Bad Penny an exhaustive examination of his artistic mind and endeavors, some of the tricks to his trade, and an honest account of his experiences working with a slew of musicians. (He also disclosed that a new Netherlands record is on the way.)
To what do you credit having such a prolific, diverse and fascinating career?
I think being a multi-instrumentalist and singer, with a wide range of genuine musical interests, became a kind of “calling card” for me. I can basically competently pull off a lot of different kinds of things musically, which over the years has enabled me to “get on the radar of,” play and record with a pretty wide array of amazing artists (“Wiki” me, call me!).
What are the most salient memories you have of proposing ideas that you really believed in but were rejected by your collaborator(s)?
Being in Cibo Matto was pretty much “trial by fire” for me in terms of developing “sideman maturity skills.” Even though Sean [Lennon] and I had a pretty wide berth and open channel for expressing musical ideas, Cibo was definitely entirely Yuka [Honda] and Miho [Hatori]’s band and vision. And so I had to quickly get used to very plainly, directly having musical ideas rejected. I was then expected to then come up with new ideas, as equally as good or better, right there on the spot.
Playing in Cibo was a huge learning experience for me as a musician and an artist. Also, just on a human level, up until then I’d never been in a band led by women, so the band dynamic naturally became a forum for me to much more seriously become aware of internalized sexist conditioning and emotional responses to things. (I was only 26 at the time.)
What about ideas that your collaborators embraced?
Because I have such an elaborate, specific vision for all the instrumental parts for Neth music, most of the time I full-band demo everything myself first, before even bringing any of it to other musicians to learn. So, in this respect, Neth isn’t really a true collaboration. It took me years to finally admit that this was kind of the way it had to be and to not feel bad about having such an uncompromising vision for the band’s sound. Thankfully, I’ve had the good fortune to have played in Neth with truly fantastic musicians, who (on balance) have always had the generosity and emotional maturity (and also shared my musical tastes) enough to wholeheartedly perform the complete concepts I wrote for them.
(Just for the record, I’ve always been – and still am – totally down with the musicians playing and infusing Neth music with their own vibe and character. In other words, playing the songs is not actually like playing a “rigid text,” by any means. Obviously it’s subjective, but I think I can fairly say that all the Neth music is challenging and fun to play, so it’s never boring (especially for drummers … there are actually spots for two to three full-on drum solos for the Neth show).
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“Even though Sean [Lennon] and I had a pretty wide berth and open channel for expressing musical ideas, Cibo [Matto] was definitely entirely Yuka [Honda] and Miho [Hatori]’s band and vision.”
–Timo Ellis
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What do you find most fulfilling about making your own albums as opposed to supporting other musicians on theirs? When collaborating with others, do you often tuck away ideas that you feel might not be appropriate for the artist with whom you’re teaming at that moment?
For reasons I’ll explain shortly…I kinda never have a shortage of ideas, ever! So I’ve never really needed to “tuck anything away.” When I’m working with someone else (especially as a sideman), I’m always completely committed to them; meaning my goal is to 100 percent honor the vision and direction of whatever the artist wants, without qualification.
(The only minor caveat and exception is when a song intuitively calls for a guitar effect that’s already prominently and thematically featured in one of my own current songs … plus, in those instances, I might try to come up with an alternative. However, even then, most of the time I’ll just use the effect anyway, as I’m not actually too precious about this either.)
Also, I do not mind whatsoever, playing an 100 percent verbatim musical text that someone else asks me to play – I think because I’m so meticulous about my own work, it’s actually easier and less work for me to not necessarily infuse everything with my own character! My vibe is obviously always gonna come through anyway, even when verbatim performing an exact musical text.
In terms of what’s fulfilling about making my own albums, it’s the basic feeling of endless possibility and the complete lack of rules which I find the most exciting. In my opinion, songs and albums naturally coalesce into three-act thematic/ musical forms, almost independently, which in itself I find to be fascinating and bizarre. I always describe the entire process of record-making as closer to being “sculptural”; kinda like “surfing” a process of endless improvisation. However, in my opinion, the real “art” is actually in the fuckin’ editing; in other words, gradually developing an utterly fucking ruthless discriminating aesthetic sensibility (in my opinion) is the only way a person’s work ever gets significantly better.
Presumably it’s different for everyone, but for me this process is always emotionally exhausting, if not actually painful … especially toward the end! So I guess the most fulfilling thing about making my own albums … um, is actually fuckin’ finishing them – especially now that I’ve made so many.
What vision do you have for your newest solo work, including Netherlands and OOMASOOMA records, going into the making of them? Am I correct in stating that four years have elapsed since the last effort by each of those three entities? You must have countless ideas that you’re ready to realize.
Severance, the last official full Netherlands LP came out on Svart in 2022 (although the Vapors super remix EP just came out like two weeks ago!) … and the second OOMASOOMA EP (Delireal) came out very recently, while the debut OOMASOOMA LP (Endless Future) came out last October, a little less than a year ago. I have two more full LPs coming out this year by both projects.
In spring 2022 I began, with the help of the incredible engineer/producer/artist Mario Quintero (Spotlights, Sisters) entirely refurbishing/remixing, from scratch, my huge catalogue of solo albums, the vast majority of which have never been released on the big DSPs. Now I currently have around 10 full OOMASOOMA releases on deck, and five new Neth releases (two of which are actually new new) fully ready to go. In other words, it would be fair to say that I have countless ideas already realized. I’ll be creatively releasing multiple albums a year (by each artist) for at least the next five years.
And just to elaborate on what I mentioned earlier about “never having a shortage of ideas”; Around 18 months ago it was clinically determined that I’m well above a median level of autism, which essentially explains (and psychologically contextualizes) my entire music making practice. In other words, my “autistic hyper focus”, i.e. my way of emotionally grounding myself, is recording and making records. And so in this respect, for me making records almost isn’t really even consciously about “creativity,” and it’s definitely never about “inspiration,” which for me is not even a thing I’ve never placed much importance on.
I usually describe my creative process as the “endless blank canvas,” i.e. closer to a working and disciplined artist’s psychological and practical setup. Basically I’ve oriented my whole life around going to the studio every day as much as I can to write and record.
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In addition to inquiring about his own projects, we asked Ellis to briefly comment on some of the myriad musicians with whom he’s collaborated throughout his illustrious career. He was a champ, playing along with candor and graciousness:
[Guitarist] Joe D. [Duplantier] and I actually just met randomly. We actually got seated next to each other on a flight to LA, and he and I hit it off. At the end of the flight, he was kind enough to invite me and my crew to an upcoming Gojira show a few months later at Brooklyn Steel. Eventually he heard Neth, and we became friends. Joe had been a huge advocate for me ever since, for which I’m extremely grateful, since Joe’s a musical genius, an extremely nice guy and the leader of arguably one of the greatest fuckin’ metal bands of all time!
YOKO ONO
Yoko Ono is a visionary, a multimedia genius and one of the greatest artists of the 20th century…a fantastic performer, next-level improviser and all around just visionary badass. Plus she’s fucking hilarious. She and John [Lennon] shared that extremely dry/absurdist Monty Python-esque English sense of humor.
SEAN LENNON
Sean Lennon is (also) a musical genius and basically gifted …in literally every artistic medium, not just music. It’s actually terrifying, he does everything (extremely) well – also insanely hilarious, a comic genius. “Spaceship” is a song that Sean Lennon and I wrote together for Sean’s (Grand Royal) debut album, Into the Sun. Epic late-’90s pop-rock songwriter vibes. Still a killer (in my opinion) and was always fun to play and sing. (Also a band featuring Spencer Shipton, named after the song, and while he and I are acquainted, we’ve never actually worked together.)
YUKA HONDA
Yuka Honda is a mind-blowingly soulful musical sorceress and composer, and a next-level brilliant improviser. She’s simultaneously the sweetest and the most intense and fiercest people I’ve ever met; a visionary producer and genuinely iconoclastic.
MIHO HATORI
I would describe Miho Hatori, similarly, in her own aesthetic realm: a brilliant composer, producer, singer, multi-instrumentalist and (also) an unbelievably great improviser. Miho actually has a genuinely unique sense of harmony, which in my opinion is extremely rare. A true maverick. One in a zillion.
JOAN AS POLICE WOMAN
Joan as Police Woman is a spectacular human and a blazingly great artist, songwriter and performer. I had the great privilege of doing several tours with her and playing on a few of her albums. One of the deepest, most intense, soulful humans around … and also a total fuckin’ goofball.
MONEY MARK
Money Mark is fuckin’ Money Mark. What can I say? Money Mark is the man! A straight up wizard/raconteur/troublemaker, who musically can literally do anything. He’s also hilarious. I feel genuinely proud to have played and recorded with him.
MORNINGWOOD
I had a very bitter and acrimonious breakup (and protracted legal debacle) with Morningwood, and that whole experience left an atrocious taste in my mouth for years. But to be fair, we were all young(ish), I was extremely not sober at the time and was terrible at setting boundaries. In the end, you can’t win ’em all! (Also, in my opinion, I wrote some rad shit in that band; check out the song “Nü Rock.”)
Go to the Bandcamp pages for Netherlands and OOMASOOMA to pick up their records and learn much more about Ellis’ primary bands.
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